Implementing Fabrication ESTmep—Best Practices

LYLE JANDA: All right, guys, my name is Lyle Janda. This is Greg Murphy. I'm with Applied Software. We're going to be covering best practices of implementing ESTmep. I've done this a couple times, so I guess to start this off, how many out there are using ESTmep right now? I see some familiar faces.

And so as I go through this, feel free to ask questions. I'd like to keep this kind of an open forum. As we know, there's multiple ways how some of this stuff can be set up. But what I really want to show the steps and processes to make sure you get the correct data in the database. ESTmep is only as good as the data that you have in the database. Without it, it's pretty much just a pretty picture

So our goals here, we'll take a look-- and y'all can read this on my slides online. But really, that's about it on the PowerPoint. But we'll take a look at what ESTmep is and how to get it going.

So one of the questions I've always been asked, which program to start with. So you've got CADmep, ESTmep, and CAMduct. So more than likely, you've got an estimating program that you've been using.

So what I recommend is before you even try to get the program or start doing clicks and pics or getting jobs out the door, spend the time to get the data in the program. It's going to save you a lot of headache. And then that way, you could still get estimates out. And then you'll have something to compare it against.

So if we take a look here, I've got these starting points. One's duct, one's pipe. And they're both basically the same thing. We've broken it out, really, on the steps that we need to make sure as kind of a checklist. And let's start with one, get the material cost, two, material insulation. And then we've got all these little different tabs. But again, you don't-- just some type of order, some type of madness, something to keep it going.

So with all that said, so once you have it in the program, or you have all that stuff, if you come and look in the program and what makes up an item, or what makes up the costing. So like I was saying on material costs for your bought out items, I'll look here at the Harrison list. On those bought out items on the piping and plumbing, the first thing I want to do is I want to come in here and make sure all my codes are in here for all the items.

And the same if you're using Ferguson. I'll get into the Product Information Editor. But really, it can be any supplier. It doesn't really matter.

Fabrication times, if we look here at some of-- for your sheet metal guys. On Bought Out Item, it's not going to have a fabrication time. You're not building it. But for a manufactured item, we need to make sure we come in and we place all of our tables. Rather than using SMACNA, your own shop standards, we need to get that in first.

GREG MURPHY: Yeah, and when we look at these you'll see these numbers down the left-hand side. So we don't always use one material. And we have full-length pieces. We have short pieces. We have black iron. We have stainless steel. So all those different variations is what each of those numbers represents.

As he goes through there, you can see now those are the pressure classes. And then he's got decoiled straights. And so there's different values for each. So all the different manufacturing you do, each tab, you have to have a labor set for each.

LYLE JANDA: And then same for your installation time. So we look here, again, for a rectangular-- we'll look at end cap-- broken out a little bit easier. And then for plumbing, piping. Oops.

So we'll look at these-- and I've seen it done both ways-- and I've been asked, well, should I set these up as a product list or a breakpoint table? So really, it depends what it is you want your end goal to be and how you want to manage this.

So as you can see here, this is a breakpoint table. Whereas that Harrison list was a product list type of table. It's using an ID to update your pricing. This is actually using the sizing of the item to give you your time.

GREG MURPHY: Yeah, so the one thing interesting here is that we can do that two different ways. There's a caveat to both. If I do it product listed, then every one of those unique manufacturers, I will have to put labor on. If I have a Copper 90 from NIBCO, a Copper 90 from Elkhart, I can just point to this table. And then I can get the same labor from just going to one place. So that's kind of a caveat.

The other nice thing is-- the only downside to using a breakpoint table is that you can only use two sizes on a reducing item. So if you've got a reducing tee that reduces three sizes, you're only going to get two sizes of reduction from the labor side that you can pull out of a breakpoint table.

Does that really matter when you look at how you want to break it down? Maybe you just do two sizes on your reducing tees, and that's how you break your table down. That's fine. And that really works. And you get really close enough. You're not dead-on an MCAA. But you're fractional off at that point.

LYLE JANDA: And then, also, we can add adjust codes to all these tables. So another thing I always see, they go in and somebody wants to go and start messing with all the numbers. Like, stop, stop, stop. These are standards.

If you're using the SMACNA or MCAA, as soon as you modify that and you now-- that's no longer following that standard. So with an adjust code, you can modify that number or whatever the standard is without having to actually change the physical data in the table.

GREG MURPHY: And I'll add onto this too. So basically, do we ever really pull the data right out of the program and say, here's the number I'm going to plug into my spreadsheet? Typically, you look at it on a job by job basis, and you want that full number. You're going to discount it on your spreadsheet anyway. So most people don't discount this at this point. They want to pull that straight value out. It doesn't mean you can't.

LYLE JANDA: Let's take a look at what that looks like at an item level. So we've gone in. We've added our material cost. We've added our installation and fabrication times. So the first thing that-- after you've got that in there, well, now we have to come in, and let's take, for example, this Weldon 90 that I have in here.

And you'll notice, I set this view up like this for a reason. It's easier to come into the Item folders. And I can look and add. I added the price list, an E-Table. So I can see right off the bat if something's missing. So I have to go in there and make sure for Highlight, Properties, Price List. So I could add the price list along all those items.

Now the install table may be a little different, because it could be pointing a 90 for a 90, a tee, a tee, et cetera. But again, visually. I can see that those-- and then another question I get, well, do I need to go through all the folders? The long answer is yes. But go through the items that your services are made of, that you use 90% of the time. And then as you're estimating, and if you find that something is missing, make sure you add it. Or you can go through each folder.

Same thing for sheet metal. I don't have a price list on these. It's pulling from the material itself. But fabrication, the F-Table, and the E-Table. So when I look at that on the item level, If you look at your Cost Breakdown. This is going to tell you everything that's on that item. So in this instance, it's zeroed out. But when you come and add your table, we'll start seeing things populate.

And why this is important, you can think you have everything set up. And it's fine, and you start pulling numbers, and you're off by $1,000. If you don't see it in here, it's not going to report out. So your Cost Breakdown is the best place to come validate to make sure.

And same thing here, if I look at this square bin, notice that there's some costing. Well, that's because of some of the ancillary data that's already assigned here that's not necessarily looking at the table. But again, if it's not in there, you don't see it, we can't report it.

GREG MURPHY: One more thing to note here is this is great for checking your breakdown. However, if you have something assigned as an ancillary to the item, and it has a value of zero, it won't show up in this list.

LYLE JANDA: That's a great point. You'll notice a lot of ours, if you look here, will be like $0.01. That's because it'll come in. You can see it. And then you'll have to go in and make sure you update all that cost to whatever your vendor costing is.

GREG MURPHY: Yeah, so if you know you plugged the item in, and you don't know the cost, and you want to come back, and you just want to make sure you have all the components lay out with the object that comes in, put in 0.001 or something, which will never amount to anything. But at least you'll know it's there. And then you would be reminded to come back and add your cost in there.

LYLE JANDA: And so the same thing applies. Let's go to Properties, Costing. Now that this is a bought out item-- I mean, it's a manufactured item-- M-Rate I'll keep to None, because that's pulling from the material-- did you have a question?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: In the cost breakdown, no. You have to add it through the item, whether it's through the connector-- so a lot of--

GREG MURPHY: Yeah, so if it's added to your pressure class at the time it's assigned to the fitting, then yes, it would be assigned there.

LYLE JANDA: And then, also, you come in here and tell it what ancillaries on the connector. So they're TDC cleat gasket.

AUDIENCE: For example, if you already added TDC, now if I wanted to add a new dimension?

LYLE JANDA: Well, so if I look at the-- when you place in your service setup-- so the question was-- I think I'm on the right track here-- if you look at your service setup, you should have a specification assigned to the service. And that spec should be driving all of your connectors, everything that makes up that item.

AUDIENCE: This is the rule. I'm following the specifications. So we have to choose just a name or TDC. But because this is our only financial development, what if I want to add other types of dimensions?

LYLE JANDA: Correct, based off the breakpoint of that item and the sizing.

AUDIENCE: Right, leave the master table of the connection.

LYLE JANDA: Correct.

AUDIENCE: Then after that, I just--

GREG MURPHY: Yep, then you can build the table.

LYLE JANDA: Correct.

AUDIENCE: Then this will show up readily in the Cost Breakdown?

LYLE JANDA: If there is costing been assigned to the parts and pieces. Like Greg was saying, if you don't have costing assigned to it, you won't see it in the Cost Breakdown. So when you go look at this TDC, or whatever it was in this instance, you'll see here you have this Costing tab. But that TDC, you'll see it's made up of a TDC cleat. So that's an ancillary. So then I've got to go into the database.

GREG MURPHY: Can you back up to there one second? So keep in mind here that in these tables, there's two ways that you can apply cost to this. One is you can actually physically plug the value in. Or you could point it back to another table. So keep that in mind. So if you have a table setup that has all your costs in it with an ID code, then you could just point to that table and then update pricing through that table.

Or you can plug it in per line item, if you will, right there where it has the bolts and whatnot. Where's that cost one? Under the Services F-Rate, E-Rate.

LYLE JANDA: Right.

GREG MURPHY: So all of those can be changed to physical values based on that particular connector or component.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: Well, your database, as far as metric and imperial--

AUDIENCE: I mean, for example, let's say sometimes the sheet metal, it can be costed by either meters square in the area or by weight.

LYLE JANDA: We can pull both that information out. Now that's at the item level. So however you want to report that out.

AUDIENCE: Both ways?

LYLE JANDA: Yes. That's all going to be based off your report, however you want to see it. In the Item area and Weight. It's just a matter of where you want to pull that in the report. So you have the option, so the answer is yes.

So what I mean by that, you look at Properties, Costing, notice you have Area and Weight. So you just report whichever one you need to see.

AUDIENCE: Another question would be for the [INAUDIBLE]. Sometimes the pricing comes in a matter of-- by milliliter or by kg, by weight control. So by the way, I can also pull this out. I can close this. This is bad connection, right? So it is either to be [INAUDIBLE] depending how much the milliliter pays or [INAUDIBLE], or by the weight. Of course, I can put the weight conversion if it is fine. But I don't know. Is it possible to do such things?

LYLE JANDA: What I would do, set your standard in the Reports is one option. You're going to have calculations. And then you can add the N1. And you can figure out whatever it is, and do a calculation. And do a conversion there, because if you go in here-- and again, this is kind of what Greg was saying, at the end of it, if we want to export it out to Excel, then we can do a lot of that custom tweaking. Really, your database, you want to keep your standards, whatever you use 90% of the time so that way, you don't have it set wrong or the right way from job to job. Question.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: Oh, correct, yeah, the ancillary, you can put weight to that as well.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: So again, there's the weight to the ancillary itself, in this instance, TDC. So again, how it's-- and this is what I was getting at at the beginning. You want to make sure all of this is in there, so that way when you go start adding it to the items, it's in there to pull from.

And then let me just come back here and add-- this was a Square Elbow. So another thing that we've been asked too in the past-- these are SMACNA tables. You'll notice we have one in here for Square Elbow and Square Elbow Hours Per Piece. So SMACNA gives you the option of pounds or by piece, pounds per hour. So again, depending on what you need to set up there, if you're using a standard, however you need that standard set up.

GREG MURPHY: Now keep in mind, if you set it up one way, that's what you're calling your standard. So if you want to go from hours per piece and do a pounds an hour, then you have to go in and find all those same fittings, and then change the table out, and then rerun reports. So there's a trick behind it that if you set your tables up one way and keep the name the same. OK? Everybody follow me so far? Don't use pounds an hour and don't use hours per piece. This is going to really derail everybody.

But if you create a table that has one set. If you go into the database and you find your F-Times, which is your fabrication times, save that file and rename it. Go back into that same table. Change all those same tables to be hours per piece. Rename it.

Copy that same file, because all you're going to end up doing is replacing those. That will prevent you from having to update all your tables or duplicating your content and reassigning the labor tables to your fabrication, if you want to do pounds an hour and do a comparison. Everybody see that? A little trick I did this year.

LYLE JANDA: So that's first steps of making sure you have all your data in the database and how we can report it out. Any other questions?

So for instance, this elbow was looking at a Harrison Price List. So what we can do with that, I went out to Sinks, and I grabbed a Harrison Price List. So when you go to Sinks, in this instance, the Harrison, it's a costing subscription base. And they'll send you a price list like this. And you'll notice you have your code and a lot of other information. But the only things we're needing is your price and this code.

So let me-- and make sure you're out of Excel. So when I bring that in, you'll see here at your price list, Update Supplier. It's going to give you all that same information. Like I said, I'm not worried about a lot of that description or whatever. All that should be in your Product Information Editor. And we'll get there.

So you'll see here, ID to Max. So I want to make sure that I set that properly, because now we can put in multiple suppliers. So I want to make sure I set this to HPH code, Cost to Price, Date to Effective Date. And again, you don't have to do all of these. And then OK. So this happened to be a Weldon or Charlotte update, I think.

So prices matched. They were modified, and mine's up to date and failed, which means I probably didn't have that in my price list. So I don't have those items in my database.

AUDIENCE: Is there a quick way to go back and find that 701 items that didn't update?

LYLE JANDA: No, because that's what it's saying. It didn't find an ID in there. So really, if it's not in there, there's no easy way without going-- I mean, you can expand this.

AUDIENCE: So do you have to have an Autodesk ID right now?

LYLE JANDA: Well, the Auto-- the ADSK ID is just a placeholder. So that can be anything. That can be company specific. That just so happens to be the items we have came with that. But that ID there, you'll see--

GREG MURPHY: Can you select all that? Can you select in there and just let go? So you should be able to copy that out and go to Excel. And then you can search and replace that way if you want to see--

LYLE JANDA: Text file. And so you'll see here that this item, you have the Harrison code that's referencing the ADSK code. So let's go take a look at where that information is stored. So I come in here to the Product Information Editor. You'll see here-- and all this can be customized how you want to see it.

But here's where that ID is stored. And so like I said, if I scroll down on the Vic items, Victaulic items, they have a Vic. So again, that ID can be-- it just has to be unique. And what that's going to reference are the supplier groups. So here's where you can have your different supplier groups and have this placeholder reference multiple supplier groups so you're not stuck. Again, we got Harrison, but it could easily be Ferguson. It could be whoever you're using, getting costing from.

AUDIENCE: And so if there's any way that we can, for example, at the same interval, when different suppliers have [INAUDIBLE]. Because usually, in any IRP system, the raw material is defined not by the supplier. It is really [INAUDIBLE]. So I have a code, the one contained in the IRP system, just a unique one and fixed one only. And under it, I can assign different manufacturer or supplier ID.

LYLE JANDA: So what you're saying, we could put that unique ID that your IRP--

AUDIENCE: So instead of Vic or--

LYLE JANDA: It'd be your unique--

AUDIENCE: It would be one, but it would be whatever it is. Different suppliers, it could be repetitive.

LYLE JANDA: Right. Well, you could have your different-- you have your unique code and then your different supplier. And put those different codes to one ID so that one item--

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

GREG MURPHY: Who's going to be updating the price? Are you going to have-- are they going to give you a price, and then you plug the number in your IRP?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. So anyhow, so it has to be one code. And then we have also the prices from different suppliers. And it's moving average prices.

GREG MURPHY: OK, so then you would have your own old company as the supplier name with your IDs in it. And then that's the price that you'll end up plugging in, since it's an average across. I've seen all of them.

LYLE JANDA: And so that takes me into how to manage if you're creating items or wanting to change the IDs. This is an example. I'd be more than happy to share this with anybody that would want it. But if you look here, as you type in this information, I've got my Product Information over here on the left and my Supplier Group over there to the right. It's a lot easier to do this stuff in Excel. And once you start setting this up, it's an easy copy/paste from Excel into the Product Information Editor.

Now those IDs will be specific to the item. So if you change them here, you got to make sure to go back to the product list of the item and make sure that's updated.

AUDIENCE: Yes, sir. Is there a quick way to get the already existing ID out and populate it?

LYLE JANDA: So like I was saying, if I come-- now depending on-- and every item will have a product list as far as your bought out items. And you'll have that ID code in every product list. So in here, same thing. I can copy this out to Excel, change that ID out, paste it back in, and change that ID on my items.

Now if there's already one there, it doesn't hurt to use that. But if you want it to be specific to yours, that's one way we can change out that ID.

One thing I wanted to show with the Harrison too is they have an add-in-- now I know it's in CAD '18, and it's giving me an error. But they have an add-in, and I'm not going to go through it all. But they have some things in here that will automate some of that updating of your pricing. So as they release an update, there's this add-in tool that can bring in those updates automatically--

AUDIENCE: For 2018?

LYLE JANDA: For 2018 and '17 and '16. Just reach out to them, and they'll--

GREG MURPHY: Yeah, there's add-ins for them, and some of them are built in. On 2018, it's built in.

LYLE JANDA: So we've looked at the information, how that information gets placed on your Items. So the next thing I want to look at, Profiles. How many in here are using Profiles?

So what Profiles will allow me to do-- and I've set one up-- because I can come in here and create job-specific services. Or maybe for my estimating department, like on the sheet metal side or plumbing, you want to take out any-- you just want your standard fittings that you're estimating off of. Well, we can create estimating-specific services and have those live in the Profiles. So that way, when you are awarded the job, then your guys detailing it will still have their detailing services. Should put busy.

So yeah, Profiles will allow you, if you're not using them, they're a real handy tool to create. So that way, your global profile doesn't have a running list of a ton of different services from job to job.

GREG MURPHY: And if you open a job that was created or actually used Profiles with, it'll prompt you and let you know, hey, you're in a global profile. And this job is a different profile. Do you want to switch to it? You want to say Yes. [CHUCKLES] OK? Otherwise, it'll go to your global profile. And then that potentially could do some bracketed stuff into it. If you have a profile with small stuff, and then you open a different profile with it, then it could interject some stuff into that profile. Does that make sense?

AUDIENCE: Why would you suggest that that added complexity? Why would you do that? Why would you--

GREG MURPHY: Well, because it simplifies the user with what they see in the service list.

AUDIENCE: Except when you transition, then [INAUDIBLE]. And that's one of the reasons why people avoid Profiles, because you have this [INAUDIBLE]. You open the [INAUDIBLE] into CAD. Now you have a profile conflict, [INAUDIBLE] that you have to manage internally.

LYLE JANDA: Why is there a profile conflict?

AUDIENCE: If they have a CAD and a profile, a CAD profile.

LYLE JANDA: No no, I'm not saying create a S profile. Create one profile with your services in it. And if it's the same database, we use the same thing.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: I didn't say put everything in it. Put things that are job specific in it.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: I mean, we can go on and on.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: Yes. That's what profiles are for.

GREG MURPHY: So if you have a legacy database where you have a CAD and an S folder separately, they still put the profiles all in the same PM shared location.

LYLE JANDA: Yeah, the profiles, if it's a common database, you can access them through CAD, CAM, S, now Revit.

GREG MURPHY: The one big advantage would be only for mainly detailing when you have your main list. And you're working on 20 jobs. And this guy only needs to see the one job. That's when you create a profile.

The other thing you're going to see in a profile, if you're going into Revit, and you're loading your Fabrication database, a profile will limit that list within Revit as well.

LYLE JANDA: In sections, that way, you can create sections in your profile that are job specific. And you don't have a running list of every section built. Yes, sir.

AUDIENCE: Is there any way to tie the profiles back to the global database? Let's say I've got this job over here that's got these 5 services. And this job over here has 7 services. And the job back here has got 12. Now I update my global service. I add a new part. Now I've got to go to the 3 separate profiles, plus my global profile and update it.

LYLE JANDA: Right. Yeah--

GREG MURPHY: So it becomes a managing nightmare, if you will, from that standpoint, because now you got to go into your profile, ultimately rebuild the service.map file that stores that. So you can literally delete the service.map file, and then rebuild that profile again, and then copy that file over. And then you can add the additional services you need for that profile.

So it's a little bit of management there. That's one of the reasons I probably don't go to Profiles myself. But there is some caveats to that.

DAVID: Put that on the Idea Station, to enhance Profiles for that back and forth communication. So It's a needed feature.

LYLE JANDA: Yeah, for pricing, the same thing.

GREG MURPHY: Yep.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: Have more Profile control.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: Right.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

GREG MURPHY: Well, there's other reasons to do it too-- and we've been playing around with this-- where let's just say you have 100 service templates, which you will end up with over time, part of that is what's driving your drawing size as being huge when you drop one item into it, because all of those templates are in there.

So if you create a profile that only has five services that you only need for this, now you can go into your Service Update and actually delete all of the service templates out that you don't need to see anymore for that job. So there are some advantages to that in that regard which would dramatically reduce your drawing size.

AUDIENCE: So say you're not [INAUDIBLE]. And you're just kicking out-- doing the export system for export services. And you're building a separate job database system. If you do all the maintenance in the main database, the main setup, what's the best way to update it from there, and take it [INAUDIBLE] just another export?

GREG MURPHY: Well, yeah, I mean, at this point, there really isn't a process that does it automatically. That's what we're saying. So you have to know what you're going to manage within the profile to remove and then rebuild the profile so it updates and gives you the additional. Because before you create a profile, you want to make sure all of those items do exist in your global profile before you create a profile. OK? You want to add to that at all, David?

DAVID: No, I mean profiles, you've got the both of your services built, right? A profile is a job-specific value. You can't put every possible scenario there. And if, here, your main database is littered with jobs, over the course of a year, you do 10, 15 projects, and give job-specific services. If you don't start caching those services on your database, it just gets--

LYLE JANDA: It gets bogged down.

DAVID: Yeah.

LYLE JANDA: Like Greg was saying, that does carry over from your job file size, and so forth. And again, that's why I like this class. It's an open forum. There's multiple ways how this can run and set up. What we have found are some tools and things in setting this up.

And that's what I want to point out to give you that starting point, to look at what are the pros and cons of certain things. And how can we get started with this, because from what I've seen ESTmep has been that product that you all bought 10 years ago, tried to work with it, shelved it, and now you're coming back to it. And where do you start?

So it's good to just have different visions to how other companies are running it instead of just one way. But at the end, the data is key. You've got to have that in there to make it work.

So the last thing I want to show is-- let me bring in a job here. So as Greg was saying, where do you want to massage that data? Where do you want to export that data once you have your job completed? So you have your Estimating Summary, as we all know. It's just that. It's a placeholder in the job that gives us a summary of what everything is in that job. And I can come in here into my Reports, depending on how you have your Reports set up, you can create your PDF-type of reports.

But ultimately, I want one place to store all this. And if I look here, I'll show you an example. So I've got an Excel sheet here where I'm going to create some-- I've got a process that's going to create some data dumps to where I can dump this into Excel. And now that I have it in Excel, then I can massage that data per that job.

So I've come back in here to EST. All this is doing, I've created the process with different data exports-- ancillary exports, et cetera. So I run that export. It's created, in this instance, text files that I've told it where to store them at. So there's all those files that I created.

So then I can import that data into Excel and tell it where to go. So as you see here, there's places in here I can start adjusting numbers. I can add the sales tax markup. And so what this allows me to do, EST I can do all this in. But once you start modifying the database, it now becomes a global change. Even if you're working with MAJs and ESJs, it's still-- I find that it's hard to get some of this data in here, as you can see, Subcontractors, Other Costs, Overheads, things like that that I can put in here to automatically add to the cost.

And really, if you look at what I was doing, it's just a data dump. Everything in that job, in here-- and I'll just use an Excel to point this where I need to see it. How many out there are using a final bid sheet summary-type method?

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]? Or this is customized?

LYLE JANDA: This is customized. But I mean, there's other-- again, it's just an Excel sheet, and it can be modified. So the ones that are out there using a final bid sheet, are you all using it in that sense, so that way you can get the raw data, and then--

AUDIENCE: Well, I've created pivot tables that export the data to the pivot tables. And then that ties into a final sheet that you can customize everything else and add subcontractors or costs that are effective.

LYLE JANDA: I'm sure you did that because in Assets, it's a little bit harder to grab some of that data. Or there's not even a placeholder for some of that stuff.

AUDIENCE: Also, you build PDF reports, and then it's just there.

LYLE JANDA: It lives in that PDF. Yes, right.

AUDIENCE: You can't sort of filter it, unless you do it in your Reports setup. So you set up a pivot table. And you get a sort filter, checks, whatever you want. And it's not only good for estimating, but it's good for project management, because you get the job too, because they can sort and filter through that data. And they don't have to come to estimate and ask 8,000 questions every time.

LYLE JANDA: [CHUCKLES]

Any other questions? Of the ones out there using ESTmep from start to finish to getting it implemented, I mean, what was the time frame some of y'all are looking at that it took? I mean, I get it that it's constantly growing.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: [LAUGHING] It's good to a point. But I mean, to get it to where it was similar to what your other program-- because again, you're always comparing it to something you've already been using.

AUDIENCE: It depends if we have the database already set up.

LYLE JANDA: Right.

AUDIENCE: If your database is set up, it's quick, because if you have to rebuild the database, then you're looking at six months to a year.

LYLE JANDA: And I think that's a good time frame. I mean, a lot of times, even if you have all the data there, there's still no one turnkey solution. Nobody out there offers a database that they can hand you and say, this will work for your company right now. You still have to go in there and take consideration of all your job standard or your company standards. So even with the SMACNA tables and the MCAA and Harrison, that's just it, it's a standard. So at the end of the day, you got to have that data and have some way to massage that data to give you accurate estimates.

Any other questions? All right, if not, let's go ahead, and we can do the drawing. I'll let you do the honors.

AUDIENCE: Pick me! Pick me!

GREG MURPHY: Who wants it?

LYLE JANDA: Do 100.

GREG MURPHY: Right in the middle. Who's got the green card? Ed Klein.

LYLE JANDA: Is he in here?

GREG MURPHY: Did he leave?

[LAUGHTER]

LYLE JANDA: All right, you've got to be present to win.

GREG MURPHY: There you go.

LYLE JANDA: [LAUGHING]

GREG MURPHY: All right, we've got Mike Trimbach.

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

LYLE JANDA: All right, Mike.

GREG MURPHY: [CHUCKLES]

LYLE JANDA: Well, Mike, what we'll do is--

AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

[LAUGHTER]

LYLE JANDA: Let us know what it is you'd like. We'll contact you, and get you set up.

DAVID: Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. That's all we have for today.

LYLE JANDA: Thank you, and thanks for coming. And see y'all around.

[APPLAUSE]